Breaking Down The Bucs' Draft

Grading a team's draft before any of the guys they selected has played a single down for them is always tricky. Some guys end up over achieving and of course some guys end up underachieving. They you have the guys who have a great first year and then fall off after that (*cough* Clayton *cough*). So take the rest of this post with a grain of salt.

I give the Tampa Bay Buccaneers draft a C+. I realize that some people have given them much higher grades and I respect many of those who have done so but I have straight forward reasons why I feel this way and I intend to explain them. Some people will agree, some won't but I think everyone will at least see where I'm coming from.

First of all individually I like every guy we drafted. Here's the full list.

1st round Gerald McCoy

2nd round Brian Price

2nd round Arrelious Benn

3rd round Myron Lewis

4th round Mike Williams

6th round Brent Bowden

7th round Cody Grimm

7th round Dekoda Watson

7th round Erik Lorig

In a vacuum I like each and every guy on that list. A LOT. Every draft pick played for a big school in a big conference and just about each and every one of them is a "safe" pick.

Unfortunately you don't draft in a vacuum, and like I mentioned the other day, the Bucs have specific needs that had to be addressed through the draft due to their aversion to being active in free agency this year. There was a chance, albeit a slim one, that they could have pulled such a feat off. However one pick in particular all but guaranteed that they wouldn't.

The 2nd round selection of Brian Price just doesn't make any sense to me at all. I know that the media is reporting that the Bucs are saying they planned to take him all alone to pair him with Gerald McCoy but I just don't believe it. OF COURSE the Bucs are going to say they planned it from the beginning lest they look incompetent, but I believe that Price just happened to be the highest guy on their board so they took him instead of stretching for need. Now in another year, in another situation, that would be perfectly fine and preferred in fact. But you can't draft best available when your team has as many needs as ours does. By taking Price with our first pick in the 2nd round the Bucs made an on the field error in addition to a draft strategy error. Lets talk about each.

First we will start off with the on the field implications. GM Mark Dominik explained why they took Price in addition to McCoy this way:

Dominik said the idea of drafting both McCoy and Price and teaming them with Miller in a three-man rotation was something he envisioned while preparing for the draft.

"We want to get back to what we did in the past," he said. "We've had a lot of success here over the years rotating our defensive lineman and (beating) the heat that way."

Here's the thing, I am sure Brian Price CAN play nosetackle, BUT he is much better suited to be an undertackle (3 technique). Make no mistake about it, I have been very high on Price, and in my own alternate universe we chose Eric Berry with the 3rd pick in the first round then we selected Brian Price to be our 3 technique. So my question is why would you get a guy that high who is pretty much the same player that you took in the first round if all you are going to do is make him take on double teams most of the day on Sundays? Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should and having Price at nosetackle will be wasting his pass rush ability on early downs. Sure he might be able to rush out of a 3 technique on 3rd downs but that's just a maybe. And lets get one thing straight, Price WILL be our starting nose tackle. Remember we had to hit homeruns this year with the draft or people are going to have to walk the plank no matter what. So what does that mean for Roy Miller?

I suppose that maybe the Bucs aren't as high on Miller as they once were but lets not forget that he himself was a 3rd round pick just last year. And besides that nothing that the Bucs have said publicly this off season to this point would give anyone reason to believe that Miller was disappointing them. That is until they drafted a guy in the 2nd round to take his job. Does this mean that Miller will now be labeled a bust? I guess only time will tell.

My biggest question is this. How exactly is this "rotation" supposed to work? Last year Chris Hovan and Ryan Sims started and then Miller would spell each of them in the rotation. It was relatively simple because we played left and right defensive tackles last season rather than an undertackle and nosetackle that flip sides according to the call and the offensive formation. So now when Miller comes in to spell Price I would assume that he would be at nose and McCoy would stay at 3 technique. But what happens when Miller spells McCoy? Does Price then go to undertackle and Miller strictly plays nose? Or will Miller play 3 technique so Price can continue to develop as a nosetackle?

This may seem like a trivial line of questioning but it absolutely is not. Depending upon how the rotation goes Price may actually get some time in at undertackle where he can utilize his pass rushing skills more or he may be relegated to strictly playing nosetackle. And I am of mixed emotions about the former. I mean I want us to have the most dominant pass rush possible at all times, but with nose tackle being a new position for Price and one of the hardest positions technique and blocking scheme recongnition wise for guys to adapt to, do we really want Price to be playing anything but the position he starts at? My fear is that we end up with 3 pretty good undertackles and 2 shitty to average nosetackles. As I have said before, our nosetackle position is a big factor in stopping the run. If we don't get consistently good play there, we won't have to worry about our pass rush because teams will just run it down our damn throats.....again.

There is one last thing that I feel compelled to point out. What happens if it turns out that Price is a better pass rusher than McCoy, at least initially? It may just be that Price picks up the pro game quicker than McCoy and starts off stronger in terms of getting pressure on the quarterback. How long would the Bucs resist the temptation to then either move McCoy over to nose or bench him altogether? Well I would say benching him is not an option, but still there is that possibility. Probably a bigger possibility than most think.

The other thing about picking Price at 35 is that it showed poor draft strategy in my opinion. I know hindsight is always 20/20 but I again feel the need to remind the reader how much the Buccaneers themselves hyped up this draft and promised fans that even though they weren't signing many free agents, the draft picks would more than make up for that. I admit that I wasn't sure that Price would fall all the way to the 2nd round but look at the teams picking behind us at #35.

(36) Chiefs
(37) Eagles
(38) Browns
(39) Raiders
(40) Dolphins
(41) Bills

Notice anything? All but one of those teams who chose between our pick at #35 and our pick at #42 run a 3-4 scheme which isn't really much of a fit for Brian Price. On the other hand just about every team in the interim needed a wide receiver. I am not saying we definitely had to take Arrelious Benn at #35 or that Price would have definitely fallen to us at #42 if we had. What I am saying is that it was more likely than the opposite scenario which was actually our reality when we picked Price first then had to spend a 5th round pick just to move up 3 spaces and pick Benn.

This may seem like a small thing but with as many holes as we have on our team right now we can't afford to deal away a draft pick that might actually have starting potential or at least be a major contributor. In the 5th round we might have been able to pick either Kam Chancellor or Larry Assante, two safeties who both went in that round and two guys who would be in the mix to start or play quite a bit for us at strong safety. Or maybe we go for Cam Thomas or Art Jones to give us another defensive tackle to add to the mix. After all if there is to be a 3 man rotation, what happens if one of the 3 gets hurt? Or maybe we could have gone offense and gotten Riley Cooper to give Josh Freeman another target to throw to while putting a little local flavor on the roster as well. Don't for one second believe that having players on the roster from the big in-state college teams wouldn't help with attendance.

My feeling is that instead of trading away a 5th rounder to move up to get Benn we could have possibly been gaining draft picks from a 3-4 team that wanted to move up to get offensive weapon Dexter McCluster who ended up going at #36 or outside rush linebacker Sergio Kindle who ended up going at #43. Worst case scenario we just stand pat, pick Benn at #35 and if by chance Price is taken in the intervening 7 picks then you turn to defensive tackle Lamarr Houston out of Texas who also had a first round grade and does a lot of the same things that Price does. Those are the kinds of things that teams that are considered great at the draft do. They make moves to continue to acquire picks rather than spend them to move up and in the end they have a quality draft with a lot of picks and usually some extra picks for future drafts as well.

Instead of those scenarios playing out we were stuck with not having a 5th round pick for this year's draft. That's HUGE when we haven't been signing free agents.

I would also knock the Bucs for taking a punter with our lone 6th round pick. Again I like Brent Bowden as a player and I know the importance of special teams play. But with a team in need of so many upgrades, is punter really our most pressing need at that point? Keep in mind that defensive end Greg Hardy was still sitting there at that point. Wide receiver Carlton Mitchell from USF is still sitting there at that point. Jonathan Dwyer, Charles Scott, Trindon Holliday all still sitting there. And we go.....punter.

Alrighty then.

And since we aren't drafting in a vacuum lets also look around our own division.

Do you think our draft is better than the Saints?

How about the Falcons?

What about the Panthers?

These teams all finished in front of us last year and they all also seemed to plug some of the biggest holes on their team in this draft. Of course they did this in addition to, and not instead of, being active in free agency as well.

Where is the big blocking tight end we are going to need to help get our running game going? Where is the safety, no offense to Cody Grimm, that will push Tanard Jackson, Sabby Piscitelli, and Sean Jones for a starting spot? Where is the upgrade at left defensive end? Where is the depth at middle linebacker pushing Ruud for a starting spot either this year or next?

Did we fill some of our holes?

Without a doubt we did.

I feel great about Benn and Mike Williams on offense. Both guys are tall, physical receivers who will go up and get the ball in traffic and have speed to stretch opposing defenses. Having seen Mike Williams torch USF repeatedly even when it was obvious that he was pretty much the only offensive weapon that Syracuse had and against true double coverage on almost every play, I am a big believer in his abilities. I am still somewhat wary of his quitting on the team but on the other hand I believe that the Bucs organization has a close enough relationship with Syracuse's coach, Doug Marrone, that if his actions were a deal breaker we never would have taken him. If we can give Freeman enough time, I think those two guys will help put some pop back in our offense and actually begin to strike fear in opposing secondaries.

I also like McCoy, Price and Myron Lewis a lot individually if not collectively. I think Lewis is going to be a physical corner somewhat in the same mold of Aqib Talib and that he will eventually transition into the role in nickel that Ronde has played for our defense for over a decade now. Early downs aside, I do feel like Price and McCoy will at some point in the season give teams fits on 3rd downs with their pass rush and help to make our defensive ends' pass rush better as well with their push, keeping opposing quarterbacks from stepping up in the pocket to avoid the ends' speed rushes.

I'm even excited about Cody Grimm and Dekoda Watson on special teams and I have heard that Erik Lorig will be a very hard worker on the defensive line and on special teams as well.

What it comes down to for me is that we didn't do enough with the picks that we had and that leaves us with a few too many question marks in my book.


I will say that this grade is definitely still in flux. In the fall the players' production could push it up or down. Also if the Bucs finally decide to bring in a few free agents to cover the spots we didn't get to in the draft, that could push it up as well. But it also could go in the other direction. If Price doesn't transition well as a nosetackle. If Williams doesn't make a major contribution this year. If Lewis doesn't end up starting at nickleback this grade, like our season, will likely be going down.

Keep in mind that its definitely still early, but for me this is how we look on paper. I am sure some folks will say I'm too negative while others will be apoplectic that I'm even this positive. Can't help it folks, I tell it like it is and how it comes together in my own mind. In the end its still just a prediction/projection, nothing more and nothing less. Its up to you whether you buy it or not.

It is what it is.


P.S. When we won the Superbowl we had a stacked secondary with John Lynch, Dexter Jackson, Dwight Smith, Ronde Barber, and Brian Kelly making big time contributions.

Our starting nosetackle on the other hand was Chuck Darby.

Just sayin....

Drafting Need Vs Best Available

One of the things that has been overlooked up until now is how the Bucs strategy (or lack their of) towards free agency will affect their approach during the draft. There are generally two schools of thought in draft war rooms. One the one hand you have teams who believe you draft for need, on the other hand you have teams that believe you always draft the next highest guy on your board regardless of position. Now there are drawbacks to both situations of course, but generally I side with the folks who draft the highest guy on the board barring a high first round pick. Even if you happen to already have an entrenched starter at the position where the next highest rated guy on your board is, it always seems to work out where you end up needing and using that draft pick. Take for instance the Carolina Panthers drafting Johnathan Stewart a couple of years back even though they already had a very good back in D'Angelo Williams. I don't think a lot of people understood the move at the time but it has certainly worked out well for them.

Now the major problem with drafting for need is that you end up reaching for guys at times and taking them higher than they should have ever gone. And chances are when you draft a guy higher than he should go, he won't perform to the expectations you normally associate with that draft position. There are certainly exceptions to that rule, but from my perspective you are almost setting those guys up for failure.

Unfortunately it seems that the Bucs by not being active in free agency have put themselves in a predicament where they HAVE to draft for need. Its bad enough that we already have a lot of holes on the team, but there are some positions where we are literally low on bodies even. We almost HAVE to draft a starting wide receiver sometime this weekend. I say almost because maybe a miracle will happen and Mike Clayton will all of a sudden turn into a world beater, or maybe Maurice Stovall will suddenly start channelling Randy Moss or maybe even the recently acquired Reggie Brown will look more like Reggie Wayne this season. Unfortunately none of those changes are likely. But what if the highest rated wide receivers are already off the board when we choose in the 2nd round?

Now I realize that not many people are promised a position on the team anyway but what about quarterbacks? What if Colt McCoy falls to us? Do we pass him up because we already have Freeman? Or is the best guy the best guy?

Is there a chance we draft a tight end high if we haven't yet drafted a defensive end or a cornerback even though we already have one of the best tight ends in the NFL with Kellen Winslow?

These are the questions Bucs fans may want to ask themselves as we head into this weekend. When you think about it, although people have their favorites for who we could draft at #3 the truth is all of the guys who have been mentioned there are pretty much can't miss prospects. Whether its Ndamukong Suh, Gerald McCoy, Eric Berry, or Russell Okung I think any of those guys will play and play well for us. But its the draft picks from the 2nd round and lower that will end up being the backbone of our team next year and for years to come, especially with the dearth of free agent signings. So while its funny to debate those 1st round guys please keep an eye on the rest of our picks. In all likelihood they will make or break this draft and make or break Coach Morris and Mark Dominik.

It is what it is.

Adding Nuance To The Numbers

Rick Stroud had an article in the St Petersburg Times that is causing a lot of buzz. He took a look back at the draft failures of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers from 2004, the year Bruce Allen took over as GM. On the one hand it supports the Glazers contention that they have to start drafting better and build the team that way. On the other hand however many people are using the article as a reason for pessimism. The thought is if the it's the same people in the scouting by in large directing the draft, that we will see similar failures this year.

In particular this morning Dan Sileo was on 620 WDAE hurling around invective. It was kinda funny I have to say because Sileo is a big time Jon Gruden supporter who is still bitter about he and Bruce Allen being let go. But when faced with the facts about how bad the Bucs drafted while both guys were here he TOTALLY bypassed them for blame and instead pointed the finger at new GM Mark Dominik and head of college scouting Dennis Hickey as being the guilty parties. It seems that Sileo is in such a rush to blame anyone but the guys he liked that he decided to go with the "the inmates were running the asylum" defense when it comes to the Bucs draft room from 2004-2008.

Well after hearing that bit of hackery along with a few other, less hyperbolic, sources using Stroud's article to cast doubt in the hearts of Buccaneer fans, I decided to do a little bit of research and add a little more nuance to the numbers from the column.

First for those who haven't read Stroud's column already and are too lazy to click the link (yes you lol) here what I feel like is the relevant part.*

Take a look at the numbers.

The only player remaining from the 2004 draft is WR Michael Clayton, the Bucs' first-round pick whose career has gone south since his rookie year. The Bucs did re-sign Clayton last year to a five-year, $24 million contract with $10 million guaranteed. He rewarded them with 16 receptions.

The 2004 draft was the first under then-general manager Bruce Allen. The 2005 draft wasn't much better, netting only two starters from 13 picks — RB Cadillac Williams and LB Barrett Ruud — and no backups. Two of those picks are with other teams, and nine are out of the NFL.

Guards Davin Joseph and Jeremy Trueblood are the only starters remaining from the 2006 draft. From 11 draft choices, one other is a Bucs backup (WR Maurice Stovall), one is with another team, and seven are out of the league.

The 2007 draft was the Gaines Adams draft. Three starters remain: S Tanard Jackson, LB Quincy Black and S Sabby Piscitelli. Of the 10 picks, four are no longer in the NFL. The 2008 draft netted CB Aqib Talib in the first round. But it produced WR Dexter Jackson as a second-round pick. He was cut in training camp in August.

Before I get into the meat of my post, its worth laying out some ground rules. First off most teams don't really think they are getting an immediate starter with guy picked after the third round or so. Second in general 1st round picks and high 2nd round picks are supposed to not only start but contend for Pro Bowls, but its seen as a bonus if you can get that from a player selected in later rounds. Third, a guy not being in Tampa any more is not automatically a bust. They could have found a better opportunity elsewhere or the Bucs could have found an upgrade.

The last caveat may just blow your mind, This is NOT a defense of the Bucs drafts from 2004 through 2008. Rather I am just adding context to the conversation because I think that's what's lacking right now. As usual with some radio guys they try to make everything black and white, but also as usual there are actually some shades of grey here.

Before I go any further I want to acknowledge the fact that two draft picks from that time frame, Gaines Adams and Marquis Cooper have passed on. Now at the times of their deaths neither guy was a Buccaneer and with Cooper it seemed that as a former 3rd round pick his career did not live up to that selection, with Gaines I would say the jury was still somewhat out. Still I'm not sure that either guy should be included in such an analysis because it just seems too crass. So people can judge for themselves whether that's the right approach or not but I'm not going there with either guy.

Now that we have that out of the way...


Let's look beyond the numbers in Stroud's column

There are two things that are apparent when you look at the players the Buccaneers selected from 04 to 08. The first is that there is a heavy slant towards offensive players. The second is that the later picks after the 4th round tended to be reach guys who were more potential than production.

In total 26 out of the 47 draft picks from that time period were offensive guys. That's better than 55%. But really its even worse than that because if you go year by year there was only one year where we drafted more defensive guys than offensive guys, in 2007 and it just so happens that most of those defensive guys are still here and productive for better or for worse. On the flip side in 2005 we we used 8 out of our 12 picks on offensive guys.

Caddilac Williams 1st rd

Alex Smith 3rd rd

Chris Colmer 3rd rd

Dan Buenning 4th rd

Larry Brackins (?!) 5th rd

Rick Razzano 7th rd

Parris Warren 7th rd

J.R. Russell 7th rd

Now I am willing to be fair enough to say that Buenning and Warren may have had much better careers if each hadn't had major injuries and inopportune times. And Alex Smith will never probably be an all star but he was decent here for a little while.

But Larry Brackins? The guy from JUCO? In the 5th round?

But the selection of Brackins is the symptom, not the disease.

It was the Buccaneers' willingness to reach on guys like Larry Brackins that goes to their philosophy at that time. Allen and Gruden were all about free agency and bringing in veteran guys to start or backup the starters. Other than their picks in the first three rounds or so it seems apparent that instead of going after guys who were solid prospects, they instead were on the eternal quest for the diamond in the rough ie the guys with more potential than production. Now there is nothing against that approach per se, but it can't be your wholesale second day draft philosophy. If it is sooner or later the fact that you never developed your own draft picks will eventually catch up to you. And that's exactly what ended up happening.

On the other hand you also have to be fair and point out some of the draft successes during that time period. Davin Joseph, Jeremy Trueblood, Tanard Jackson, Aqib Talib, Jeremy Zuttah, Cadillac Williams, and Barrett Ruud have all been pretty productive players so far. Aaron Sears looked like the real deal before personal problems derailed his career last year. Alex Smith and Will Allen started quite a few games for the Bucs and Geno Hayes seems poised to be a standout while Maurice Stovall still has the potential to be a very good player for the team.

Still you can't come away from our draft history from those 5 years and feel good about it. But at the same time you can't separate the head coach and GM from that history. Gruden and Allen were so focused on free agents that the draft appeared to be an after thought to them. They didn't do their due diligence and it showed. Some of the biggest failures weren't the first round picks but the 2nd and 3rd round picks like Dexter Jackson and Chris Colmer. And again what do those two guys have in common?

They are both offensive players.

That's what makes Sileo's argument so laughable. The funny thing is if you have listened to the guy for any stretch of time you come away convinced that if the Bucs had drafted better he would have given ALL the credit to Gruden and Allen. But since the drafting was so atrocious all of a sudden it was Dominik and Hickey running the draft.

Go figure.

Listen, I don't know if the front office people for the Bucs are geniuses or a bunch of numbskulls. I do know that so far we have one draft to go on under the new regime. And last year 4 out of the 6 guys we drafted were significant contributors. And the other two guys, Xavier Fulton and E.J. Biggers at least still looked the part. Bad season and all you still never saw that under Gruden and Allen and that's a fact. And to Sileo's strawman that Bruce Allen got a job with the Redskins and thus that must mean that our bad drafts weren't his fault, hmmm do you think MAYBE that had something to do with his dad being a coaching legend for the Redskins? I mean in what world does Dan Snyder hiring somebody give them credibility?!

The truth is I am on record as being opposed to the Buccaneers focusing exclusively on the draft without participating much in upgrading the team through free agency. I believe in building through the draft but I also feel strongly that you have to sprinkle in some free agents as well to fill holes that would otherwise probably take a few years to fill with a draft pick. But, having said that I still believe that the core of the team should be the guys you draft. And it appears that in that regard at least the Bucs and I are on the same page.

I will leave you with this. Tell me if you recognize any of these names.

Marquis Hill

Guss Scott

Dexter Reid

Cedric Cobbs

P.K. Sam

No?

Those are the New England Patriots 2nd, 3rd, two 4ths and 5th round picks from 2004. Are people scrutinizing THEIR scouting department? And is it just a coincidence that Bill Belichick is also a guy who values free agents over developing draft picks?

I think not on both counts.

The lesson here is, give it time. We will all see pretty soon whether Raheem Morris, Mark Dominik and Dennis Hickey are up to the job of selecting the right guys for this team. No need to ASSume that the past will have any bearing on the future in that regard, especially now that the people at the top have changed.

Curb Your Enthusiasm

2009

Tyson Jackson - 0

B.J. Raji - 1

Peria Jerry - 0

Ziggy Hood - 1

2008

Glen Dorsey - 1

Sedrick Ellis - 4

Kentwan Balmer - 0

2007

Amobi Okoye - 5.5

Adam Carriker - 2

Justin Harrell - 0

2006

Haloti Ngata - 1

Broderick Bunkley - 0

John McCargo - 0

2005

Travis Johnson - 1

Marcus Spears - 1.5

Luis Castillo - 3.5

Mike Patterson - 3.5


Source

I was talking to some friends recently and I remarked to them that the biggest problem the Tampa Bay Buccaneers had last year was a PR problem. In my opinion the Glazers knew that they were about to blow up the team to try to rebuild it last spring. I don't care if it was because of them owning Man U, or if they truly were just moving in a different direction philosophically any reasonable football person would have taken a look at our roster right after Derrick Brooks was let go and said we would be lucky to win 6 games, especially with our schedule. But instead of the Glazers getting in front of the story, they sat back and left fans to their own devices for the most part. Now I keep pointing to the Glazers because I don't think you could have reasonably expected the Coach and or GM to come out and say it without the say so of the owners even if they also knew it to be true. Now if you know fans like I know fans, they not only want a Superbowl every season, they also think their team is the Superbowl winning team before any games are played every season. So even though we had what in my estimation was one of the toughest schedules in the league, many average every day fans thought we were going to contend for the playoffs. When you have that mindset going into a season then a 3-13 record is even worse than it might have been otherwise. And to make it worse fans then assume rightly or wrongly that they have been lied to about the team, about the head coach, about the financial situation, pretty much everything. At that point its hard to get them bag on the bandwagon and I think you are seeing that played out in the fact that Joel Glazer came out at the coaches meeting and admitted that the season ticket holder list was so low that we would probably experience blackouts here during the season for the first time since they owned the team.

Well at this point at least everyone is admitting that we are rebuilding which should bring at least a few die hard fans back in the fold. But I fear another PR debacle is right around the corner and that is with our draft. Specifically I am talking about our upcoming 1st round pick. Now I have been and still am of the opinion that two ex defensive coordinators in Steve Spagnulo and Jim Schwartz are not going to let the top two defensive tackles get passed them no matter what people are saying about Sam Bradford. But there is the chance that one or both of them might. There is talk now of the Lions potentially taking an offensive tackle to help protect their first round quarterback from last year, Matthew Stafford. So the Bucs could potentially have their pick between Gerald McCoy and Ndamukong Suh but here is whether the problem lies.

The media has hyped both players up to such heights that most fans are probably of the opinion that if we get one of them all of our problems on defense will be solved. Unfortunately up until this point the Bucs have done nothing to try to dampen those fantasies and so if we do end up picking one of them I fear that the Bucs will fully embrace the narrative and put unrealistic expectations for them on their shoulders. Imagine for a second that after a 3-13 season fans we get Suh and fans start thinking maybe 9-7 is attainable and instead we only win 6 games. That have and even greater effect on discouraging the fan base than this past season did.

Check out the list above. Those are all of the defensive tackles or defensive ends in a 3-4 scheme that would be tackles in a 4-3 scheme taken in the 1st round in the last 5 years and their sack totals for their rookie season. Notice that out of 17 draftees only 4 had more than 2 sacks in their rookie season. Notice further that Amobe Okoye was the tops on that list with 5.5 sacks his rookie year, a full sack less than what Gaines Adams, God rest his soul, had his rookie season when fans here were calling him a bust. Now there is no doubt that every player is different but again ask yourself a question. If we are lucky enough to draft Suh or McCoy and they get 5.5 sacks but we only win 6 games do you think fans will consider them to have lived up to their billing or that they will figure they are a bust?

Now I still think its far fetched to think both guys will still be on the board when we pick at 3. But if one or both of them are I hope the powers at be over at One Buc realize the reality of the situation and go to the media early and often to soften expectations. If they can perhaps get fans to have lower expectations heading into their rookie season then if they go out and shine they look even better. And if they're average then at least some fans might be more willing to be patient with them. To me that's the ideal situation you should want for your 1st round pick regardless so they can go out and perform without the worry that every mistake they make will be under a magnifying glass. Its worth a try at least.

And of course I would be remiss if I didn't point out that Warren Sapp only had 1 sack his rookie season. And he didn't turn out so bad for the franchise did he?

Yeah, But Whose Gonna Coach Em?

For months now there has been speculation about which defensive tackle the Tampa Bay Buccaneers might select with the 3rd pick in the draft. While early on it looked as if they wouldn't get the chance at Ndamukong Suh or Gerald McCoy, here lately with reports that the Rams or a trading partner of theirs might take Sam Bradford with the 1st pick in the draft, the prospect of having one or both guys still on the board at 3 is looking a lot more realistic. Now most pundits have gone back and forth with each guy, some thinking Suh is just too talented to pass up while others noting (rightly in my opinion) that McCoy is a better fit for our defense. But here's the thing, while the anticipation grows as draft weekend approaches, there is a question that Buccaneers fans should have in the back of their mind in addition to which defensive tackle we will take. And that question should be "who is going coach them"?

It seems like a simple question, and a quite important one to boot, yet I don't know about you but I haven't heard many pundits in the Tampa Bay area asking it. I guess the assumption is that if you draft Suh or McCoy they will just magically turn into Pro Bowlers without any coaching. Of course we know that history has shown us that's hardly ever the case. So who IS going to coach them and how much should it matter?

Well the first part of the question is pretty simple. Todd Wash is the Buccaneers defensive line coach, you can see it right there at their website. And who is Todd Wash? Well from his bio it appears that he was a pretty good linebacker in college and he is pretty smart too as he has two degrees. Also from his bio we see that he started his coaching career in 1996 and worked his way up in the college ranks before becoming a quality control coach here in 2007 and then working his way up to head defensive line coach last year and sole defensive line coach going into the 2010 season.

The first thing I noticed when reading up on Wash is that this is his first NFL job. Nothing wrong with that of course, Rod Marinelli got his first NFL gig here in Tampa as well after all. But the fact that he has been in coaching at all just a bit over 10 years combined with the fact that this is his first NFL job is a bit worrisome to me. I don't want to make it seem as if I am throwing Wash under the bus because I don't know him and I have personally never seen him in action at practice or during the game but there are some things that can't be ignored. And the biggest fact that gives me pause is that we haven't had a defensive lineman have double digit sacks in the 3 seasons that he has been here.

Now I would try to give him a pass on that first season since after all he wasn't a position coach but a quality control guy. However in his bio he takes credit for Gaines Adams getting 6 sacks that year as a rookie and so I feel like that year is fair game as well.

So what's the closest a defensive lineman has gotten to double digit sacks during his tenure?

That would be the 8 that Greg (Stylez) White got in his first season as a Buccaneer in 07.

The most by a defensive tackle?

That would be the 6 that Jovan Haye got ALSO in 07.

In the last two years the most sacks any defensive end has gotten in a season is 6.5 and the most any defensive tackle has gotten is 2.

And please keep in mind that this will be Wash's first stint coaching the entire defensive line by himself. Last year he handled defensive ends while the now departed Coach Robert Nunn handled the defensive tackles.

Now obviously after the way our defensive tackles performed most of the year I don't think anybody is shedding many tears over Nunn's departure. But what does it say about the Buccaneers that they didn't even attempt to replace him going into what may be the most important draft in team history looking to draft a franchise defensive tackle?* Considering how important most people think it will be that draft Suh or McCoy, why hasn't anybody asked this question before now?

Listen, for all I know Todd Wash is going to turn one of those guys into the next Reggie White next year and erase any doubt about his prowess as a defensive line coach. I for one would be the first to salute him if he does. But what has he shown in his career thus far that would inspire that kind of faith in him and his abilities? You can discard last year's performance all you want but then you still have to acknowledge 2008 where Ryan Sims led all defensive tackles with 1.5 sacks on the season and Gaines led all ends with 6.5. I don't know that Coach Marinelli EVER went through a season where the highest sack total for one of his interior lineman was 2 or less let alone allow that for two years straight, and he is the type of guy that Wash is going to need to try to emulate.

I saw enough head scratching calls on the defensive line this year to further make me skeptical of what we are going to get from Suh or McCoy if we draft one of them. Time and time again we either didn't run any pass rush games or the ones we ran were harry high school type stuff. Not only that but to this day I am still trying to understand why in the game where White was hurt we moved Jimmy Wilkerson from his starting position at left end over to right end, and then allowed Tim Crowder who backs up both starts to start at left end which didn't take advantage of either of their strengths.

You put that all together and you have a recipe for disappointment. Again I could be wrong and I hope I am, but put me on record right now saying that if we draft Suh or McCoy neither guy will have more than 5 sacks next year. That's not hating that's being realistic based on the evidence at hand.

Just one more thing for you to consider heading into next season.

* I don't really wanna have to go there but did the Bucs let Nunn go without replacing because they had so much faith in Wash, or was it just another instance of them trying to save money? Its not an easy question and I don't have the answer but I think it has to be asked and addressed

Geno Atkins

I know that not many people watched the Senior Bowl this year, but I happened to be one of the few who did. Throughout the game this one guy kept flashing to me and it was a defensive tackle out of Georgia by the name of Geno Atkins. Now I watched my fair share of SEC ball this year and I remember that Georgia had some tackles inside who had ability but never seemed to make a lot of plays. Well this guy Atkins showed a ton of pass rush potential in that Senior Bowl game and I really liked the way he used his hands.

I asked around and some scouts think he have a lot of ability but so far he hasn't really tapped into his potential. Now normally for me that might be a red flag about the guy's work ethic but so far I haven't heard anything negative in that regard. Actually he just completed what appears to be a very impressive combine where he threw up 225 pounds 34 times and ran a 4.78 at 295 pounds or so.

Now as you know I am a film guy so I want to try to find a way to watch more of him, but I expect Atkins is going to be rocketing up some people's boards now and might be in that bottom of the 2nd/top of the 3rd round area. I have to say that If I keep digging and nothing negative comes up on him, I would fully endorse the Bucs using a 3rd round pick on that guy. Somebody that big, and that fast, who actually already has pass rush moves is going to generally going to make plays in this league.

As the draft approaches keep checking back and I'll try to update with what I hear on him.

What Can Berry Do For You?

At this point it may seem like I am lobbying for Eric Berry and perhaps I am. But the thing of it is, I want the Bucs to be successful, and THAT'S why I would like to see him on the team. But regardless of whether he is a Buccaneer or not I think maybe fans out there would like to know why I am so high on him and what he can do for a defense.

The thing to know about Eric Berry is that he is very versatile. Last year at Tennessee he played almost every position on defense aside from defensive line. He is physical when he is in the box and he is fluid with good ball skills when he is covering the back line. He is also good covering tight ends and slot receivers in one on one situations. He also is one of the best blitzers from the secondary that I have seen coming out of college football in some time. So what does that translate into when he is on your defense?

First of all it means that you won't have to substitute as much. Many times offenses will use personnel as well as formations to try to dictate what the defense is going to do. When your safeties aren't good in coverage then you end up having to take out a linebacker and put in an extra corner when an offense goes to a three wide receiver set most of the time. That makes you a lot more vulnerable to that team running the ball against what essentially becomes only 6 people in the box. When you have a guy like Berry however you can match him up on the slot receiver, keep all three linebackers in the game and still be stout against the run with 7 in the box.

Second of all some teams will put in an extra tight end along with a fullback at times to give the appearance of running the ball down hill at the defense only to go play action pass. The Saints in particular use this set quite a bit and it has been very effective for them. Now a defense that doesn't have a physical safety may elect to take someone out of the back line and put in an extra defensive lineman to match up against the offense's heavy personnel. But if you have a guy like Eric Berry, again you can keep basically your regular personnel in the game and be more sound against both the run and the pass.

Third of all when your team is in a division where there are several talented tight ends, you are going to need to have a safety that matches up well with them or you end up having to double them lest they burn you up and down the field. Berry has been a corner early in his career at Tennessee and he still has corner's feet. You can single him up on most tight ends and he has enough size and quickness to cover them down the field and he is physical enough to tackle them should they actually make the catch. And if you aren't doubling the tight end then that free another guy up to cover underneath routes which makes your pass defense more fundamentally sound.

Fourth of all a lot of the better running teams nowadays set up their blocking schemes so that they double team the inside guys up front, get up on the linebackers late, and leave the free hitter, usually the safety, unblocked and tell the running back that the free hitter is his guy. What that means is they try to make sure that they get enough push up front without pentration (a philosophy that I happen to endorse) that the running back can get a full head of steam before he sees contact and when he does see contact its going to be one one one, him and the safety, and he either has to juke the guy and or run over him and if he can do that then he will get big yardage. Sometimes its not enough that your safety can get the guy down after a 5 or 6 yard gain in those situations. Sometimes you are going to need a thumper who actually punishes the running back for even considering trying to run them over. Eric Berry is the kind of safety who likes to thump people all over the field.

Now those are the kinds of things that you can do in terms of reacting (or not reacting) to what and offense is trying to do, but having a guy like Berry also opens up the playbook for the things a defensive coordinator might want to do to dictate to an offense.

If you want to have a defense that blitzes a lot then you are going to need to have corners and at least one safety who can cover. Having Berry on your team allows you to go with more man blitzes with confidence that you won't give up the big play because your safety ends up in a mismatch. Also because he is such a good blitzer you can use him to confuse the opposing quarterback on where to set the protection. Using the Bucs as an example for years and years we have almost exclusively used Ronde Barber to blitz on third down. Last season we saw that when the Bucs tried to use other DBs to blitz it didn't turn out so well. Now if you line up Ronde on one side and Berry on the other, the center can be sure which way to slide and that will open things up so that we can get pressure on the quarterback and force them into mistakes.

In addition to all those things Eric Berry has a ton of range and great ball skills, exactly what you need in a safety if you play a lot of Tampa 2. He just ran a could of mid 4.4s at the combine which shows you he has track speed. But he is also a very instinctive player and if you watch him on film you can see him breaking on balls almost before the quarterback even begins to throw it. Considering how many times our corners got beat on deep balls last year, getting a guy who can help over the top you would think would be a high priority.

Of course if one of the big defensive tackles are still on the board I expect the Bucs will have to take them, but even then I am not so sure that it would be the right move. I know a lot of analysts aren't saying this but both Ndamukong Suh and Gerald McCoy running mid to high 4.9s in the 40 is underwhelming compared to how they have both been sold. Don't get me wrong, there is no discounting what both guys did on the field this year, but if you are going to tell me that a guy is going to be the best defensive lineman in the last 20 years or so then Im going to need for him to run at least a 4.8 if not better. Big Daddy Dan Wilkenson who really WAS a freak of nature ran a 4.7 back in the day. Our very own Warren Sapp was also a freak of nature who ran a 4.6. A 4.9 isn't terrible but it isn't earth shattering either. And when you get down to it, while both guys will help whichever teams they go to, how much will a defensive coordinator be able to add to their playbook just because they have them on their team?

I can tell you right now, not much.

Now I don't want to make it seem like Eric Berry is the second coming, but the guy is a damned good football player and having him on your team allows you to do a lot more things than normal. Just look at the Steelers with Troy Polomalu. When he got hurt their defensive coordinator was limited in what he could call. But when he was able to play you saw how much more aggressive they could play as a defense. I truly believe that while Berry and Polomalu are some what different kinds of players, he could have a similar impact on any defense that he plays on.

And I for one continue to hope that that team is the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

On The Bucs Drafting Eric Berry At Number 3

As I hear the draftniks going into full swing since the NFL season is now officially over I have heard a lot of chatter about who the Buccaneers should pick at #3. Now I know one guy threw a total curveball saying the Bucs would take USF defensive end Jason Paul-Pierre, but that is pretty much unfathomable. In fact, while I like JPP's potential I personally would say the whole scouting department should be fired if they draft him that high. He had a pretty good year this year, but he had only one year as a starter. And while he was good you couldn't make the argument that he was dominant without getting laughed out of the room. I think if there is an established team out there that doesn't have a lot of teams (they are usually towards the bottom of the first round because of their success) then perhaps you can get a guy like JPP as a project for a few years down the road. But the Bucs need a guy who can contribute right away. A homerun so to speak.

That brings me to the guy I have said they should pick all along and that is Eric Berry. Now I know the hype behind Ndamukong Suh and Gerald McCoy is such that they would HAVE to draft one of those guys if they fell to them. I get that much. But if not I think Berry is overwhelmingly the logical choice. He would fill an area of need. He would give us a very dynamic safety tandem with Tanard Jackson. And he is so versatile that he could begin the transition of Ronde Barber retiring by taking over some of his duties as a nickel blitzer.

The thing of it is, I haven't really heard anyone, not one single person, argue that Berry isn't talented enough to be taken at #3. The knock seems to always be that Saftey is a position that just isn't traditionally drafed that high. And you know what, they are right! But I wanted to do a thought experiment for those fans who believe that just because it isn't traditionally done, that we shouldn't do it.

Here are a couple of lists I want you to check out and then I will explain afterwards.

1. Charles Rogers, Dewayne Robertson, Byron Leftwich, Michael Haynes, and Jerome McDougle.

2. David Carr, Joey Harrington, Mike Williams, Wendell Bryant, William Green, Phillip Buchannan, TJ Duckett, Ashley Lelie, Javon Walker.

3. Robert Gallery, DeAngelo Hall, Reggie Williams, Michael Clayton, J.P. Losman, Marcus Tubbs, Chris Perry, Kevin Jones, Rashaun Woods, Teddy Lehman.


The first list is guys drafted before Troy Palomalu, the second list is guys drafted before Ed Reed, and the third list is guys drafted before Bob Sanders.

Now I know all three have had some injury issues during their career, but 2 out of the 3 have been voted Defensive Player of the Year, and 2 of the 3 have won a Superbowl. Now ask yourself a question, do you really believe the GMs for the teams that drafted before they were taken wouldn't go back now and pick them instead?

I know that hindsight is 20/20 but by all accounts Eric Berry looks to be in the same class of athlete as all three of those guys. If he runs a good time which at this point I would think would be the only question left, I really can't see how drafting him at 3 would be a bad move.

Now there are no guarantees in life, and definitely not in the NFL draft, but I have seen enough to convince me that Eric Berry would be a solid pick at #3. It is what it is.

Makin Moves

Several people have asked me who we should draft next April. I will say to them you what I said to them, I am not a big draft guy. I don't keep tabs on draft boards and all that and I don't even know how many picks we have in the draft next year.

Having said that, here is how I would approach the draft next year just based on watching a lot of college football games this year.

My first choice would be to trade down and pick up draft picks. We are going to have some holes that need to be filled next year no matter who is the defensive coordinator.

Failing that if we have a top 5 pick then I would go with Rolando McClain the linebacker out of Alabama. The guy is a physical specimen who is big, athletic and explosive. You can line him up all over the place and he will make plays for you. He is also big enough to take on blockers, shed them and make the play. And best of all he is a very smart player who is a student of the game. He is definitely a guy who I think will come into somebody's came next year, learn the defense backwards and forward, and end up starting and probably being a leader for that team.

But if we can trade down I would definitely go for Eric Berry the safety out of my alma mater Tennessee. I know traditionally safeties are not drafted very high in the first round but I would make an exception for this guy. The reason being is that we have Jeremy Shockey and Tony Gonzales in our division now. We need a safety who is big enough and athletic enough to come down in the box and cover those guys tough or we are going to have problems.

Also Ronde Barber for as good as he is playing can't play forever. Berry would be the perfect replacement for him at nickel back. The guy is physical and he loves to come on blitzes and blow plays up. He is a ball hawk as well who has really good hands.

If we could draft Berry we would have one of the best young safety combos in the game with him and Tanard Jackson.

If we can't get either Berry or McClain then I would go for the cover corner at Alabama Javier Arenas or Taylor Mays the safety out of USC.

As far as defensive tackle I personally would rather the Bucs go out and sign somebody in free agency. High on my list would be former FSU player and pro bowler Darnell Dockett. The guy is a load and he can pass rush from just about any position on the defensive line. I know he has had some public confrontations with management out in Arizona but his teammates and coaches love the guy and he shows up every Sunday. And lets be real here, having a player from FSU will help get some people back on that season ticket list. Im just being real about it.

I would still look for a defensive tackle in the draft but it would be in the 4th or 5th round and it would be a big guy like a nose tackle. The draft always has plenty of those kinds of guys who slip through the cracks.

I think its all but assured that Ryan Sims won't be here next year. I am not sure about Chris Hovan but if I had a vote I would say we keep him because he is still productive and he is good in the community as well as being a leader in the locker room.

Now let me repeat this for you, this isn't really my deal. I'm sure Mel Kiper might look at this post and laugh. But from what I have seen watching football this year, these are the guys who could really help us next year to get our defense back on track. It is what it is.

One Game Evaluation Of Ndamukong Suh

While reading several Tampa Bay Buccaneers message boards and blogs this year I have seen time and again different fans saying that we should select Nebraska defensive lineman Ndamukong Suh with our first round pick. Now I will tell you up front that I am not one of those guys who breaks down the upcoming drafts round by round and tries to be a mini Mel Kiper. What I can do however is look at different players and assess their talent level and how it might transfer to the NFL, especially defensive linemen. So I decided to take a look and the young Mr. Suh and see what all the fuss was about.

Now I actually took a look at Suh earlier in the year when Nebraska played Baylor. In all honesty I didn't come away all that impressed but I figured maybe it had to do with the level of competition. Considering the fact that Kansas State is a pretty good team that was still in contention for a bowl game last night I expected to have a truer picture of him as a player. So I DVRed the game and went back last night and did a play by play evaluation of Suh. Now this is still just one game and for all I know he could play better or worse in any other given game, but I just want to put that caveat out there.

The first thing I want to point out is that the announcers for last night's game were having an absolute love fest over Suh. I am not sure I have ever seen a situation where what the announcers were saying were so out of touch with what was actually going on on the field. Its not that Suh had a bad game, he actually had a pretty good game. But what he didn't have was some kind of super human game like they were trying to make it out. It got so irritating to me that after awhile I had to turn the sound off. I will say this though, whomever Suh has doing his PR should be on every college player's speed dial.

Here are the stats as I recorded them from last night's game. He played 72 snaps including penalty plays. He had 6 solo tackles 2 assisted tackles and 1 sack. He also had to passes knocked down. On the down side I was generous by only giving him 3 loafs* and he had one missed tackle.

Here are my general thoughts about Suh.

This is a guy who is obviously strong and fast in a straight line but not all that physically imposing. His 6 foot 4 frame looks taller but he by his own admission is not 300 pounds. To me he looks like a guy who could stay where he is at weight wise and be a decent to better than average 3-4 end, or maybe take off about 10 pounds and be a 4-3 left end. He has long arms and he plays with pretty good leverage. When he wants to he shows flashes of having pass rush moves but at least for last night at least, they were few and far in between. He is obviously fast for a guy that size as he ran down several plays from behind. But he also is prone to taking plays off if the action isn't close to him. In a lot of ways I think playing beside Jared Crick may open him up to some criticisms about his effort as teams begin to break him down on film. I don't think Crick is near the athlete but he seems to go harder play in and play out.

There are a few things that I saw last night that would have me leaning away from drafting Suh in the top 10 picks in the first round as a 4-3 defensive tackle. For one I didn't see that explosive get off that you would like to have from your defensive lineman. Some of that is a function of the kind of defense Nebraska plays where their tackles aren't in very wide alignments most of the time. But even when he did get the opportunity to get in the gap and get off I just didn't see that explosive first step. I also did not see any consistent pass rush moves. That's not to say he can't be a great college pass rusher because he surely has been. But when you get to the NFL level just being bigger and faster than most of the guys blocking you won't be enough. Time after time I have seen big athletic guys get drafted and end up being busts because they didn't have any moves. Make no mistake about it, in the NFL defensive linemen, aside from the occasional 3-4 nose tackle, are judged by their ability to sack the quarterback. And I am just not sure Suh will come in and be able to do that, at least from the defensive tackle position. And with a top 10 pick you really want a guy, aside from a quarterback, who can come in and be productive from day one.

Last night I counted at least 6 times where Kansas State single blocked Suh on a pass and he got locked up. I counted at least 7 other times when he didn't even bother to make a pass rush move. He has a tendency to kind of drift all over the field and then if he sees the quarterback scramble try to take off and tackle him then. Now that is perfectly fine for college football but its something you can't do on a regular basis in the NFL.

Let me heavily caveat this assessment. Suh is without a doubt very athletic. For all I know he will go to the Senior Bowl and tear it up there and show the pass rush moves he isn't showing in games. And he might go to the combine, run a 4.7 and bench press 225 lbs 40 times. In that case most teams, probably including the Bucs, will feel compelled to take him in the top 10 or maybe even the top 5 regardless of what they have seen on film. And honestly the guy, where ever he gets drafted, may come into the league and get with a really good defensive line coach who teaches him moves and motivates him to play hard every play and he ends up tearing the league up. But as for me I have always been the type to judge a guy most heavily by how he plays on film. How tall, big, fast, strong, or well spoken are all secondary to me when it comes to evaluating talent. And from what I saw last night and in part of the Baylor game Suh is not a guy who is going to come in and tear it up as a defensive tackle in a 4-3.

Just to give you a comparison, in the one season I worked as a graduate assistant at USF coaching the defensive ends, we happened to earn our first bowl bid in school history. That of course was the good news. The bad news however was that we would be playing North Carolina State. At the time NC State almost literally had an NFL defensive line, with Manny Lawson and Mario Williams playing defensive end. I hadn't really seen them play that year so I decided to sit in with the offensive coaches one day just to check out their defensive line. Mario Williams sold me in that one day of watching film that he should be taken with the first pick in the draft. The guy was huge with long arms but he wasn't fat at all. As a matter of fact as I said at the time he really just looked like a regular sized linebacker just blown up to about 6 ft 6. But what was most impressive about him at the time was his range of pass rush moves. I mean this guy was knocking hands down, doing rip moves, doing arm overs. Hell he even broke out a spin move a couple of times. He was literally unblockable and NC State moved him all around the defensive line. There wasn't a position he couldn't pass rush from and I mean in a dominant way.

I simply don't see that when I watch Ndamankuh Suh. I see a guy who is athletic and strong and can make plays when he wants to. But I don't see dominance jumping off the screen where you just can't take your eyes off that guy.

Now another major reason why I am not sold on the Bucs selecting Suh is that the design of their defense is such right now that he doesn't really fit what they are looking for inside. If you look at Jim Bates' years at Miami which is what people bring up when they defend his scheme, what he had there was two really really big tackles who were essentially no name guys but could attract double teams. If you know who Larry Chester and Tim Bowens are more power to you, but I doubt most people do. And neither of those guys were top 10 picks I might add.

Here is what Bates had on that defense. He had two tremendously gifted pass rushers at defensive end in Adewale Ogunleye and Jason Taylor. He had two tremendously gifted physical cover corners in Sam Madison and Patrick Surtain. He had a ball hawking safety in Brock Marion. And he had very physical and fast linebackers in Zack Thomas, Marlion Greenwood and Derrick Rodgers.

Interestingly enough, none of his linebackers were much bigger than the guys we have now. However I will say that they came down hill a lot more than we do now against the run.

But I digress.

The point is, if we are going to draft a defensive tackle high I would rather see us go after Mount Cody out of Alabama as he is a big guy who will demand a double team and keep offensive lineman off our linebackers. But you don't draft a guy like Cody that high. You wait till later rounds and find him or a guy like him and plug him in. If we are going to be picking in the top 10 I still think we would be much better off picking a defensive back or a linebacker or maybe even a pass rushing defensive end. Those are the guys who are expected to make big plays in Bates' defense and so those are the guys we should put a premium on finding.

Ndamakong Suh may make sense for a lot of teams to take that high, but I just don't see how he fits in here.

* A loaf is a term most coaches use to grade a player down on their effort. When a player either is not busting their but to the ball or there is a noticeable change in speed during their pursuit to the ball then they are given a loaf because the coaches expected better. Suh doesn't come out of the game and plays a lot of plays, I will give him that. However there were quite a few times where it appeared he wasn't busting his tail to get to the ball. Because looks can be decieving I tried not to give him a loaf unless it was just blatant, but if I was actually his coach I probably would have given him several more.